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Classic Hammer » Warhammer Fantasy » 6th Edition
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Minotaur load out
Just Tony
So I am rounding out my Minotaur army and am really struggling with what armament I should go for. Great weapon seems to make the most sense, but I'm starting to wonder if an extra attack might be better in the long run. On one hand, 16 attacks to my front. On the other, St 6 which means -3 to armor. AND Minos aren't exactly slouches with initiative either.

Any thoughts either way? Comparable experience with similar units in actual games to compare?
Father, soldier, musician, Transformers fan, masochistic junior moderator type thing.
 
HidaSeku
My opponent that played Minotaurs in his Beastmen army back in 6th always complained about how inferior the extra attack was compared to the +2S of the great weapon. I always just took his word for it, but never looked into it, so I have some thoughts on it from a theory perspective...

In theory, the extra attack should be really handy, but even against some weak T3 troops, needing a 3+ to wound rather than a 2+ to wound becomes a big deal.

Some quick mathhammer, assuming easy peasy WS3 T3 opponent:

Two weapons = 4 attacks, hitting on 3+, wounding on 3+, avg 1.77 wounds
Great weapon = 3 attacks, hitting on 3+, wounding on 2+, avg 1.66 wounds

So, against the weakest opponents, with up to a 6+ save (or only a ward save), it actually is superior to use two weapons mathematically. WS up/down affects both styles equally. The thing is, if there's a save of 5+ or a higher toughness, the great weapon will win out. For example, against 5+ armor, two weapons drops to only avg 1.475 wounds, even with the S4 reducing the 5+ to a 6+. The better the armor save, the worse the variance.

So, the mathhammer seems to line up with the experience of my former opponent, unless you face a whole lot of T3 daemons or lightly armoured elves.

I did not address the initiative issue, and this can also sway one way or the other. My personal opinion is that the charge is the way minotaurs should shine, but this only my opinion.

To note, in the Beastmen army I'm slowly building up I have a unit each, one unit of minotaurs with great weapons and one unit with additional hand weapons. Purely for Rule of Cool reasons! Grin
 
snyggejygge
I Always used GW back in the day, not only is the math better, but when charging you strike first & the rather low Initiative meant that you strike last vs most lethal troops anyway.
 
Just Tony
If I thought that I'd win combat on every charge, then it'd be a no brainer. I like great weapons as a rule, and it looks like pretty much every example favors them, but I always think whole battle rather than individual match up. Sure, I am most likely to get the charge with my Minos, but if I can't ensure I can do at least 6 unsaved wounds on the charge, then it doesn't guarantee that I will win combat. Then, on the next turn, I get to get popped before I can swing. THAT is what concerns me, more than anything else. Yeah, it'd help against knights who don't have as much static CR, but that's about it. Everything else is a bit of a high risk situation.
Father, soldier, musician, Transformers fan, masochistic junior moderator type thing.
 
TinyLegions
We have had a query in the past on the Dwarf forums when either just picking a Dwarf Character with a GW or with a rune of fury. Ultimately it does come down to taste, and neither are something that I would call bad options, but I would ask an important question. What is making the heavy attacks (high Strength and High AP) for your Minotaur army? If you don't have anything that is, then I would go for Minotaur with GW. If you have a few of these units that can make a heavy attack, then going for the two HW is a viable option.
Your Benevolent dictator

My Miniatures Blog http://www.tinyle...gspot.com/
 
Just Tony
Well, with Bestigors still in there, they do the exact same for damage. Minos benefit from the move, initiative, and fear. That's about it. Oh, and the 3D6 pursuit from Bloodgreed.

In a perfect world, I'd have an army with nothing BUT Minotaurs.
Father, soldier, musician, Transformers fan, masochistic junior moderator type thing.
 
TinyLegions
How many Minotaurs do you actually have and do you want to have a Minotaur theme army? I think that the last time that I saw a number was 26 standard Minotaurs. Check my math but at 40 pts a model that is roughly 1K,(40*26 = 1040) and enough to fill out your core slots. Adding a Minotaur Lord brings you to around 1200 or so. After that, it depends on what you want to do from there. Either all Minotaur which would be one or two largish units of the specialized Minotaurs that you are reviewing, or add some special and rare units that are not Minotaurs. An all Minotaur army is doable with what you have and what you are contemplating getting. It may be more reasonable to get a few rare and special slots filled with other monstrous creatures and call it a day. Ultimately it depends on what kind of army that you want to create here.
Edited by TinyLegions on 13-05-2017 16:45
Your Benevolent dictator

My Miniatures Blog http://www.tinyle...gspot.com/
 
Just Tony
Eventually I want enough to do either a mixed Beasts army OR an army with nothing but Minotaurs and a Doombull. I basically did the math and it'd be around 39-40 Minos plus Doombull. I'm still debating on Tzeentch or not, as the magic phase was more than a little off-putting to my opponent.
Father, soldier, musician, Transformers fan, masochistic junior moderator type thing.
 
TinyLegions
A general question for your beastman army, but ever though about adding Giants to the mix? I know that you are not interested in Centagors or Ogres, so I wont ask about those.
Your Benevolent dictator

My Miniatures Blog http://www.tinyle...gspot.com/
 
Just Tony
I'm trying to stick with BOC list in general, and I want a combined force as well as the "pure" army. Now dipping into the Mortal and Daemon stuff isn't something I'm interested in. I may get a giant eventually.
Father, soldier, musician, Transformers fan, masochistic junior moderator type thing.
 
TinyLegions
I don't understand, Giants are part of the BOC army list right now with out dipping into the Mortal or Daemon book.
Your Benevolent dictator

My Miniatures Blog http://www.tinyle...gspot.com/
 
Just Tony
Read again, I realized that. I was sayiing that my mixed force could potentially use a giant, but the pure Mino force will be exactly that: pure mino. Just because.
Father, soldier, musician, Transformers fan, masochistic junior moderator type thing.
 
TinyLegions
Ok, so going back to the pure Mino force. I would recommend both armaments if you can swing it. With about 35 or so Minos in a pure army, you can have plenty of all three load outs, and you will get the variety that you want.

My two cents.
Your Benevolent dictator

My Miniatures Blog http://www.tinyle...gspot.com/
 
Just Tony
You may be right, I already have some modeled with an extra flail back when I was gonna run MSU with champs.
Father, soldier, musician, Transformers fan, masochistic junior moderator type thing.
 
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