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What Magic Items or Combos do you BAN?
Galadrin
I've said it here and elsewhere... my preference is to play the game straight as written. I am loathe to remove or modify things, partly because nostalgia is a huge part of my enjoyment (and beardy is how we played back then!) and partly because the game feels more authentically Warhammer if we are simply using the books and cards as they are printed. Plus, the challenge of beardiness can be a lot of fun too, since you have to wrack your brain every week to figure out how to counteract it (and if you can't, then overly beardy players soon find themselves without an opponent anyway!).

However, I am still really interested in how different groups of players modified (or still modify!) WFB 5th Edition. What magic items were TOO beardy for your group? Here are some combos I've heard of... does your group also have a problem with any of these?

Executioner's Axe: Automatically slay a model with no armour save... even if it only happens on a 6, some find this to be too powerful for only 50 points.

Fell Blade: Strength 10 means this weapon nearly auto-wounds any enemy and ignores armour as well... turning each wound into D6 wounds spells doom for most characters and monsters as well. Too strong, for some!

Hellfire Sword or Frost Blade or Rod of Corruption: All of these weapons are expensive, but still some feel that "automatically slain" shouldn't be in the game (even if you still have to hit and wound and the enemy gets an armour save in the case of the first two). You could always give a character a good magic armour to protect them, though.

Crown of Command: Some people say that magic items that flat-out ignore the characteristic profile are too powerful... turning a lowly Night Goblin Boss into the world's most fearless leader bothers them! I don't have any problem with this though...

Battle Banner on a large regiment: +D6 combat resolution on top of rank bonuses can make some units seemingly impossible to defeat and thus this item is looked down upon by some.

Mork's War Banner on a chariot: Some players use this to hunt down wizards... give them a flying mount, I say!

Chaos Runeshield and Cloak of Mists and Shadows: Makes you immune to both non-magical and magical weapons! But you need to get a spell off to do it... bring dispell scrolls!

Banner of Might and a regiment/character with high WS: Allows you to hit some enemies on a 2+ in close combat... powerful, but not that much better than hitting on a 3+.

Bad Moon Banner or Helm of Many Eyes and characters with two-handed weapons: A very powerful combo for very few points. Of course, a Black Amulet can always rebound these attacks back at the enemy!

Skavenbrew: Basically a 50% chance of doubling a regiment's attacks for the round. Not too effective in my experience given that Skaven troops are often soo weak, but there is a 1 in 6 chance that you will make Plague Monks have four attacks each!

Sword of Destruction and a powerful character: Perhaps ironically, some have a problem with a magic item that negates magic items, particularly if it is carried by a character that doesn't need magic items to win a fight like a Chaos Lord.

Carstein Ring: Because killing a vampire is already very difficult... However, if the vampire was the general, you still get to crumble his army after the first time you kill him!

What are some other items or combos that are or were too powerful for play? I tend to think most magic item "problems" were specific to each group as it really depends on what the players in that group tend to exploit. For example, some groups never had a problem with Heart of Woe but may have banned Sky Arrow of Naloer (an item that few had a problem with).
 
Just Tony
Tress of Isoulde and Hydra Sword. Sticks out in my mind. There were a few combos that were extremely off-putting, to the point that I question if they even THOUGHT about what would happen in even casual games, let alone tournament play.
Father, soldier, musician, Transformers fan, masochistic junior moderator type thing.
 
Geep
It's too long ago for me to remember all of the combinations, but my group came up with some horrible ones.

The ones I remember having a problem with were mainly:

Crown of Command- that thing was everywhere, and it could make games more boring.

The Fell Blade- normally I didn't mind it, but it made short work of siege games!

The Storm Banner- I don't remember if that was the right one, but it made all units move at ground speed and, once activated, was unlikely to ever end. Warhawks and Great Eagles were made useless in turn 1, and Dragons and the like were severely hampered.

Various things that negated shooting. Bretonnians had a banner, and I think there was the Ruby Chalice too? Either way, I played Wood Elves, and when either of these items was around I was pretty stuffed.

The Hydra Blade, Tress of Isoulde and Potion of Strength. We didn't know at the time that the 'D6 hits' was supposed be to 'D6 hits on one model', so this character- and variations of it- used to wipe out whole units at a time.

I remember one Skaven opponent grew bored of moving so many models, so he'd often just move up the characters by themselves with the bare minimum of chaff to keep them alive before they reached combat. The majority of the army just wasn't relevant.
 
Galadrin
Cool, I play Wood Elves as well (my first and always my favorite army). They were really good in 4th/5th... I don't think they have ever been better, actually, but I am not familiar with the new editions.

Yeah, the Hydra Blade limitation was actually printed right on the card itself... the problem is, most groups probably only had one Warhammer Magic box and the cards were easy to lose and difficult to sort before a battle, so most people probably relied on the brief summary of magic items in the Warhammer Magic book (and these short descriptions didn't go into every detail covered on the card). A common mistake, unfortunately!

Still, the Tress of Isoulde would have made it a guaranteed killer against enemy characters and most big models. There were a LOT of combos and magic items that killed tooled-up characters or big monsters... my solution was simply to not field either in my armies! The funny thing is that most of the magic items for which "Herohammer" is known actually served as a counterbalance to Herohammer itself!

By the way, what set did Tress of Isoulde come in..? It haven't found it in Warhammer Magic or Chronicles of War (the latter is technically a 4th Edition product, so not surprising there). Was the card released in a White Dwarf or something?

The Storm Banner was the only way for an opponent to really avoid my "march block with Great Eagles" tactic that was ubiquitous among Wood Elf players. It forced me to rely more on small groups of Scouts and Waywatchers to march block, and I felt that was fair. It was also a good way to make sure a Bloodthirster never earned his point value back (6" Move isn't slow, but it is definitely easy enough for a skirmisher-heavy army like Wood Elves to completely avoid for the entire game). In my experience, the deadliest armies were always the troop-heavy, well-balanced ones.
 
snyggejygge
Due to items such as Black Amulet, Black Gem of Gnar, Talisman of Ravensdark, heart of Woe & Van Horstmann's Speculum I do not think there are too many op characters/combinations out there.

The one I can think of is Sword of Destruction on Chaos Lord of Khorne, add Collar of Khorne & Regeneration & you have a character that if mounted have a 1+ save, 4+ Regeneration save, almost immune to magic & immunity to all magic items while still having 10 attacks at S5.
All the usual combinations used to stop such characters doesn't work due to Sword of Destruction.

With that said, I would like to Point out that our gaming Group only use magic items costing 50 Points or less & changed the character & regiments restrictions from:
Characters Max 50%
Regiments minimum 25%
Allies up to 25%

Into:
Characters Max 33%
Regiments minimum 33%
Allies up to 25% (but no allied characters or war Machines)

This along with not using the expensive magic items made the game just as fun but a lot more balanced.

If you think this change is too much then use the tournament rules:
4.bp.blogspot.com/-NTw6FP2ivqg/WTrlFglEggI/AAAAAAAADBQ/gKPPaoNrFrkLl0sgEv2R3GpvT-9BL6khACLcB/s1600/Tournament%2Blimits.jpg
 
Galadrin
snyggejygge wrote:

Due to items such as Black Amulet, Black Gem of Gnar, Talisman of Ravensdark, heart of Woe & Van Horstmann's Speculum I do not think there are too many op characters/combinations out there.

The one I can think of is Sword of Destruction on Chaos Lord of Khorne, add Collar of Khorne & Regeneration & you have a character that if mounted have a 1+ save, 4+ Regeneration save, almost immune to magic & immunity to all magic items while still having 10 attacks at S5.
All the usual combinations used to stop such characters doesn't work due to Sword of Destruction.

With that said, I would like to Point out that our gaming Group only use magic items costing 50 Points or less & changed the character & regiments restrictions from:
Characters Max 50%
Regiments minimum 25%
Allies up to 25%

Into:
Characters Max 33%
Regiments minimum 33%
Allies up to 25% (but no allied characters or war Machines)

This along with not using the expensive magic items made the game just as fun but a lot more balanced.

If you think this change is too much then use the tournament rules:
4.bp.blogspot.com/-NTw6FP2ivqg/WTrlFglEggI/AAAAAAAADBQ/gKPPaoNrFrkLl0sgEv2R3GpvT-9BL6khACLcB/s1600/Tournament%2Blimits.jpg


I like these house rules, they seem like a good compromise... in fact you could probably use different character allowance values for different styles of play.

25% Characters would be more like historical gaming (like Warhammer Ancient Battles)

33% Characters would be "low fantasy" like 6e

50% Characters is "high fantasy" (like GW's red-phase 1990's World of Warhammer)

I am a little curious how you worked around the 5e Chaos Warband system, which didn't exactly use point value percentages. Did you just rule that a warlord's retinue had to be worth twice the value of the warlord? That would probably have the same effect, but if you wanted 25% allies in your army then you could only have 25% characers (because you would need 50% minimum regiments).

I use the 4e army books wherever possible (which I prefer far more than the 5e books), but that raises a different problem for me... Bloodthirsters are not character choices, so you could technically have a Bloodthirster in a 1,600 point army. Of course, with the rules as written, one could easily just take an allied character like Jasperre le Beau (for a mere 234 pts!) and clean the Bloodthirsters' clock.
Edited by Galadrin on 09-09-2017 09:33
 
snyggejygge
For warbands of Chaos we just made them use the same % system in the total army as the other armies have, in addition to that we ruled that each character included still has to have a warband worth the same value as the character himself.
The last part was to avoid Champion spam, because otherwise you could have Champions of Chaos with same equipment as a Chaos Knight for just 2 points extra
 
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