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Question About Grimgor Ironhide and "Always Attacks First"
MattyFenby
Trying to figure out if there has ever been an official statement about whether Grimgor's special ability 'always attacks first' pertains to enemy chargers in the initial round of combat.


So in the Dogs of War Army List in the 2004 book the Pikemen have "Always Strikes First in the initial round of combat, even before enemies that have charged." I assume that in subsequent rounds of combat they revert to initiative order.

On page 67 of the O&G Army Book, Grimgor's Axe Gitsnik says 'in addition, Grimgor always attacks first." This sounds to me like even in subsequent rounds of combat, Grimgor attacks first. Is that the extent of his rule? Or was I supposed to infer that ALWAYS also includes 'even-against-enemy-chargers?"

It says the word always, but it does not specifically include enemy chargers the way Pikes did. This same 2004 book issues a small rules clarification (not sure what it even corrects because it looks the same as the O&G book to me) for Grimgor in the Errata section but does NOT mention this there or in the FAQ (as far as I've seen).


That would make me think Grimgor's always attacks first is different from the Pikes. However, thought experiment: say Grimgor charged the Pikemen- it says "note that enemies who are entitled to strike first because of a special ability or magic will still strike before pike-armed models."

So THAT makes me think Grimgor's special ability should be seen to even overrule the pikes?

I know you guys have said in 7th Edition it wasn't fun to play against High Elves because their "Always Strikes First" rule included before-enemy-chargers. What are you guys' thoughts on this? Would it be better to interpret this as "ALWAYS attacks first" or as "Always attacks first, excepting enemy chargers?"
 
Just Tony
Explicitly striking first is striking first unless competing with another strike first rule. Striking before chargers has been pretty explicit and universal across all ASF examples. As far as pikes? Initiative order.
Father, soldier, musician, Transformers fan, masochistic junior moderator type thing.
 
TinyLegions
What JT said, "always strikes first" means just that. They will strike first all of the time regardless of any situation and regardless on who is charging. The only way to strike before a character with an ASF rule is to bring that rule on something else. Note that not all rules are the same for competing ASF weapons. Blade of Darting steel is in the Q&A in the chronicles has you roll off regardless of initiative order, which is different from most other ASF weapons. We would need to roll a die to determine who's rules is in effect that turn if my dwarf lord with MrR of Swiftness is in combat against Tony's Elvish prince with the Blade of Darting Steel according to the Q&A, as the MrR of Swiftness goes initiative order, then a roll off. In that scenario, Tony would prefer to use the rule on my rune as he most likely will be attaching first with higher initiative, and not rolling a dice to see if I attack before his prince.

As far as Pikes, it says that they don't strike first before a character with the aforementioned rule in the chronicle. Quote: "Note that enemies who are entitled to strike first because of a special ability or magic, will still strike before pike armed models." (emphasis added by GW not me) So for your scenario, Grimgor does attack first all the time, however in the first round of combat regardless who charged in this scenario, the pikes will attack after Grimgor and whoever Grimgor is attached to after that. In subsequent rounds it will be Grimgor, then whoever had initiative after that.
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