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Offensive Dwarf List 2000p
elendor
Hi!

I only own High Elves models and I have only played HE except a couple of games with Lizardmen to try them out.
However since I am back to WFB 6ed I have a small project that involves creating a 2000 points army list for each army book in order to read them again and to try different playstyles.
I doubt I would actually play the list unless other 6ed players lend me their armies, but anyway I will make the mental exercise.

I will start with Dwarves since I have played against them several times and while I like their fluff I find pretty boring the static shooty lists many people fielded.
So I made an attempt at a Dwarf list that invests in mobility.
The list uses the first 6ed Dwarf book from 2001.

Here is the list:

Characters:

Dwarf Lord:
Gromril armor, shield
Rune weapon with Master Rune of Swiftness (always strikes first), Rune of Might (doubles Strength against Toughness 5 or more), Rune of Cleaving (+1 Strength)
Runic talisman with Master Rune of Spite (4+ Ward save)
Rune of Stone (+1 armor save).
270 points

Thane Battle Standard Bearer:
Gromril armour,
Master Rune of Gromril (1+ Armor Save)
113 points

Runesmith:
Gromril armour, great weapon
Spellbreaker Rune x2, Rune of Stone
137 points

Core units

19 Dwarf Warriors
hand weapon, shield, heavy armour
Musician, Standard Bearer
(Dwarf Lord inside)
186 points

10 Dwarf Warriors
great weapon, heavy armour
100 points

2x10 Thunderers
dwarf handgun, light armour, shield
2x150 = 300 points

10 Rangers
light armor, great weapons
120 points

Special units

15 Ironbreakers
Musician, Standard Bearer, Champion
Rune of Courage (immune to psychology)
(Battle Standard Bearer goes here)
275 points

10 Troll Slayers
110 points

1 Cannon
100 points

2x Bolt Throwers
Rune of Penetrating (+1 Strength)
2x70 = 140 points

Rare units

1 Gyrocopter
140 points

Total: 1991 points


The big combat blocks are the Ironbreakers with the BSB who are immune to psychology and the 19 Warriors with the Dwarf Lord.
The Ironbreakers act as an rock unit, they take very few casualties due to 2+ armor save in Combat, they can re-roll their Break tests due to BSB and they won't autobreak due to Fear.
The Warriors are also hard to kill with 3+ Armor save, but they can also deal damage due to the Dwarf Lord, who attacks first even if they get charged.

The rest of the army is basically support.
The Slayers are unbreakable and their role is to cover one flank.
The Thunderers are able to move and shoot and have a 4+ armor save in combat, so they can go in the other flank and cover it with their 20 F4 shots.
The Cannon and Bolt Throwers are there to shoot at monsters and chariots (and with S7 on Bolt Throwers, Chariots auto-die if they get hit).
The Rangers and the Gyrocopter are there to provide mobility. The Rangers are scouts so they can threaten the enemy earlier, and the Gyrocopter can deny march movements and shoot at skirmishers with the template cannon.
Finally the 10 warriors with GW are simply there to support the main combat blocks by threatening flanks. They won't hold against a charge so you have to move them carefully.

I think of advancing in a diagonal line, with each unit covering the next unit's flank, the slayers at the end of one flank, and the Rangers as scouts on the opposite flank.
Dwarves are pretty slow and they can't pick their own combats, but I try to design the units so they are unlikely to break, except Rangers and the 10 Warriors whom the general needs to position carefully.
The priority of the army is to remove Fly, Skirmish and Fast Cavalry enemy units first in order to avoid being surrounded, and then force the enemy to fight the main combat blocks.
The shooting should be concentrated in one flank to force the enemy out of it, making the board smaller for the enemy.

One of the weak points of the list is the lack of damage dealing in the main combat blocks except the Dwarf Lord, whose unit can autobreak due to Fear. The other is that the war machines will be left alone when the Dwarves advance, so they should be effective the first three turns.
I chose the war machines to have long range with this in mind, as they need to be in range since Turn 1.

What do you guys think of the list?
"They thought the Library was a dangerous place because of all the magical books, which was true enough, but what made it really one of the most dangerous places there could ever be was the simple fact that it was a library."
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
 
Just Tony
One thing that I'm (re)learning from playing 6th Ed. recently is how much Static Combat Resolution affects the game. I don't drop an infantry unit nowadays if it doesn't get 4 of 5 SCR points (Banner, +3 ranks, and if I'm lucky Outnumber) right off the bat. In 5th for sure 10 man units were viable, but in 6th you are simply throwing away CR that your opponent may not be so inclined to throw away.



When I get around to making my Dwarf army, I'm loading it up with Hand Weapon/Shield Dwarf units at 20-25 man each with Full Command before I even THINK about adding a war machine. With 4+ against shooting and 3+ against hand to hand, I think I will do okay.
Father, soldier, musician, Transformers fan, masochistic junior moderator type thing.
 
TinyLegions
Dwarves are my first army and one that I am very familiar with. My thoughts on this list.

elendor wrote:

Hi!

I only own High Elves models and I have only played HE except a couple of games with Lizardmen to try them out.
However since I am back to WFB 6ed I have a small project that involves creating a 2000 points army list for each army book in order to read them again and to try different playstyles.
I doubt I would actually play the list unless other 6ed players lend me their armies, but anyway I will make the mental exercise.

I will start with Dwarves since I have played against them several times and while I like their fluff I find pretty boring the static shooty lists many people fielded.
So I made an attempt at a Dwarf list that invests in mobility.
The list uses the first 6ed Dwarf book from 2001.

Here is the list:

Characters:

Dwarf Lord:
Gromril armor, shield
Rune weapon with Master Rune of Swiftness (always strikes first), Rune of Might (doubles Strength against Toughness 5 or more), Rune of Cleaving (+1 Strength)
Runic talisman with Master Rune of Spite (4+ Ward save)
Rune of Stone (+1 armor save).
270 points

Thane Battle Standard Bearer:
Gromril armour,
Master Rune of Gromril (1+ Armor Save)
113 points

Runesmith:
Gromril armour, great weapon
Spellbreaker Rune x2, Rune of Stone
137 points



Not bad, maybe on the expensive side with a Lord. I tend to like the Thane of Pain(Rune of Fury, Cleaving, Stone, HW, S, GA) these days over lords at this level, but that is a personal preference. Where do you plan to deploy your Runesmith? Spellbreaker runes go well with combat Runesmiths, and what you have is an OK one, but I would either armor him up more, or make him more combat viable and ditch the GW. Otherwise not bad.



Core units

19 Dwarf Warriors
hand weapon, shield, heavy armour
Musician, Standard Bearer
(Dwarf Lord inside)
186 points

10 Dwarf Warriors
great weapon, heavy armour
100 points

2x10 Thunderers
dwarf handgun, light armour, shield
2x150 = 300 points

10 Rangers
light armor, great weapons
120 points


I tend to think that Warriors like what you have should be 25 including any characters. If I want something unique and disruptive, I go for Miners before Rangers personally, but each to their own. Thunderers are not move and shoot, they are move or shoot in the 6th. All ballistic weapons for Dwarves are move or shoot.


Special units

15 Ironbreakers
Musician, Standard Bearer, Champion
Rune of Courage (immune to psychology)
(Battle Standard Bearer goes here)
275 points

10 Troll Slayers
110 points

1 Cannon
100 points

2x Bolt Throwers
Rune of Penetrating (+1 Strength)
2x70 = 140 points


The first thing that you need to do is to get the Ironbreakers up to 20 at a minimum, and 25 including characters is preferable to me. Wherever you pick to drop your BSB, loose the Standard Bearer as you can only have one standard count in combat for the 6th.(that is one more Ironbreaker there wherever you get it from) You can only have one BT with the Rune of Penetrating, you must include something else for the second BT to have a Rune of Penetrating. Personally I would go for one, as you have two war machines that can kill chariots, and remember that a naked BT can still hurt a chariot and a monster a lot. Properly placed, these war machines can be good bait units for your opponent. A good combination is a BT and one of your thunderers in a corner by thenselves. If your opponent sends a fifth of his army after these two units, then they did their job by that alone as they will most likely be out of combat for the rest of the game for your opponent. Rune of Immolation might be a good idea for this tactic.



Rare units

1 Gyrocopter
140 points



Rare's are to taste, so I will leave that to you. For your general strategy, ok.



Total: 1991 points


The big combat blocks are the Ironbreakers with the BSB who are immune to psychology and the 19 Warriors with the Dwarf Lord.
The Ironbreakers act as an rock unit, they take very few casualties due to 2+ armor save in Combat, they can re-roll their Break tests due to BSB and they won't autobreak due to Fear.
The Warriors are also hard to kill with 3+ Armor save, but they can also deal damage due to the Dwarf Lord, who attacks first even if they get charged.

The rest of the army is basically support.
The Slayers are unbreakable and their role is to cover one flank.
The Thunderers are able to move and shoot and have a 4+ armor save in combat, so they can go in the other flank and cover it with their 20 F4 shots.
The Cannon and Bolt Throwers are there to shoot at monsters and chariots (and with S7 on Bolt Throwers, Chariots auto-die if they get hit).
The Rangers and the Gyrocopter are there to provide mobility. The Rangers are scouts so they can threaten the enemy earlier, and the Gyrocopter can deny march movements and shoot at skirmishers with the template cannon.
Finally the 10 warriors with GW are simply there to support the main combat blocks by threatening flanks. They won't hold against a charge so you have to move them carefully.

I think of advancing in a diagonal line, with each unit covering the next unit's flank, the slayers at the end of one flank, and the Rangers as scouts on the opposite flank.
Dwarves are pretty slow and they can't pick their own combats, but I try to design the units so they are unlikely to break, except Rangers and the 10 Warriors whom the general needs to position carefully.
The priority of the army is to remove Fly, Skirmish and Fast Cavalry enemy units first in order to avoid being surrounded, and then force the enemy to fight the main combat blocks.
The shooting should be concentrated in one flank to force the enemy out of it, making the board smaller for the enemy.

One of the weak points of the list is the lack of damage dealing in the main combat blocks except the Dwarf Lord, whose unit can autobreak due to Fear. The other is that the war machines will be left alone when the Dwarves advance, so they should be effective the first three turns.
I chose the war machines to have long range with this in mind, as they need to be in range since Turn 1.

What do you guys think of the list?


In my opinion, there are two ways to do an offensive Dwarf army. One is to have large blocks of HW troops that will move to combat with characters that will do the killing.(AKA the Steamroller) The other is what you are going for in a more finesse maneuvers of counter charges. This is very much harder to accomplish. In general I recommend runes of slowness on all main line units regardless of offensive strategy. You use the BSB in the warriors unit to give them this. You will need it if you want to go the countercharge route.
Edited by TinyLegions on 08-03-2017 22:09
Your Benevolent dictator

My Miniatures Blog http://www.tinyle...gspot.com/
 
elendor
I will reply more thoroughly later when I have more time but Dwarf handguns can move and fire since they don't have the rule Move or Fire and in the supplement Warhammer Chronicles 2003 in the Questions section (page 134) they answer this specific question, and they say Dwarf handguns can move and fire.
Was this changed in the 6.5 Dwarf army book, the one from 2006?

Also you are right for the Bolt Thrower, I forgot that the Law that prevents you from having two identical runic items also applies to war machines ^^

For the Standard of the Ironbreakers, it allows me to make them Inmune to Psychology and the BSB can carry the Master Rune of Gromril to protect himself, although two standards only grant +1 CR. My goal was to have at least one unit inmune to Fear, and I think that the BSB is better protected with the IB than with the Warriors.
I would love to have 20/25 Ironbreakers but the unit becomes pretty expensive, although removing one Rune of Penetration from a BT allows me to include 2 more. I included 15 to make them 16 with the BSB and get +3 rank bonus, this bonus is gone with the first casualty but they still have rather good odds to hold since I doubt Ironbreakers take many casualties in combat, so if they lose combat they'll lose by a small margin. In other words, I don't require them to win combats, simply to hold the enemy for one or two turns so I can countercharge (ideally) and to protect the BSB.

I like Miners (I actually thought of bringing both Miners and Rangers) but aren't they unreliable because they might arrive too late?

Thanks for the replies! I will give them a longer thought (the current reply is mostly from the top of my head) and make another post.

Cheers!
Edited by elendor on 01-03-2017 12:58
"They thought the Library was a dangerous place because of all the magical books, which was true enough, but what made it really one of the most dangerous places there could ever be was the simple fact that it was a library."
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
 
Just Tony
It was indeed changed in 6.5, and to be frank I blew that whole BSB thing since as far back as I can remember. At least all my recent games. I got accustomed to being able to get both in 7th Ed.
Father, soldier, musician, Transformers fan, masochistic junior moderator type thing.
 
TinyLegions
Damn, you are right. Looked it up in my own chronicles. I stand corrected.

- Your benevolent Dictator.
Your Benevolent dictator

My Miniatures Blog http://www.tinyle...gspot.com/
 
TinyLegions
To come back to this. My experience is that Ironbreakers will be targeted by almost anything that is Armor Penetrating, so casualties will happen due to shooting, magic, heavy Combat units, etc. That is the reason why they need to be a large infantry block. DE Bolt Throwers were particularly effective against these guys.

Psychology tests were never much of an issue for my Dwarves with the one exception of loosing combat to terror or fear causers. Auto break affects all badly. It happened from time to time where I would fail a fear test prior to combat and I think I had one dwarf block fail a terror test but that is it in about 40 games that I did in the 6th edition. I went up against a guy who usually had a giant in his Orc and Goblin army and I killed that Giant more often in CC than anything else, using GW dwarves of all things. That Giant rarely had a good go of it with me, and then he eventually stopped using it with me. I had issues with VC armies, but that may be me not doing the right things when I played them. With an offensive dwarf army, the better rune is Rune of Slowness as whatever is causing terror or fear will be attacked by you, and not the other way around.

I don't recall ever having my Miners not come into a battle. They always rolled into combat. Whether they were useful or not was contingent on the battle. Don't forget that there is a psychological element when having your miners go underground. There is a halo of 7 inches that your opponent will make that you can use to drive them where you want.

Obviously your mileage may vary on these concepts.
Edited by TinyLegions on 10-03-2017 18:39
Your Benevolent dictator

My Miniatures Blog http://www.tinyle...gspot.com/
 
Just Tony
I always imagined doing an offensive list as a simple line of 20 man HW/S units simply marching up the board in a straight line, trying to keep close enough to disallow flank charges. Not sure how well that'd do.
Father, soldier, musician, Transformers fan, masochistic junior moderator type thing.
 
TinyLegions
Just Tony wrote:

I always imagined doing an offensive list as a simple line of 20 man HW/S units simply marching up the board in a straight line, trying to keep close enough to disallow flank charges. Not sure how well that'd do.


Filled with Combat Characters(that would include Runesmiths) runed up to taste, not that bad actually.
Your Benevolent dictator

My Miniatures Blog http://www.tinyle...gspot.com/
 
Just Tony
I figure a BSB, a Runesmith, and maybe a Thane. I only need to stalwart against a few spells and stop a blender Lord from running TOO roughshot. Past that, the LD, the save, and the CR should keep that army in place.
Father, soldier, musician, Transformers fan, masochistic junior moderator type thing.
 
TinyLegions
I am assuming that you want to 4 blocks of Warriors which would be 205 without any characters each, at 820 so far there is a lot that you can work with. What you have so far as characters may get around 400 pts depending on Runes. You can easily allocate for a Lord and still have left over for other specialized units. Likewise another Thane will be more economical and leave more for other troops. Horde Armies, like what you are referring to, is a lot of fun to play.
Your Benevolent dictator

My Miniatures Blog http://www.tinyle...gspot.com/
 
Just Tony
I was seriously thinking about NOTHING but a few characters and Core Warrior units with Hand Weapon and Shield. Maybe a flank unit with great weapons or two, but that'd be it. Basically I picture a shield wall so wide that it'd be very difficult for the enemy to turn a flank, fight on my terms despite my lack of speed.
Father, soldier, musician, Transformers fan, masochistic junior moderator type thing.
 
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