The Last Ride of Lord Ruthven (Army List Post)

[Jonathan E]

So the other day I was transferring my Vampire Counts from the spare room to the display case downstairs (where they belong) and idly musing on the character count, and how my older fifth edition characters gave me the perfect headcount for 2000 point games, and how I had so many of the smaller scale Perry designed Mordheim figures and... wait. How many of those do I have?

Once I'd counted those the subsequent events should seem entirely natural. I've played a couple of 6000 point exhibition games and they've strained my collection somewhat: what I have, I've always thought, is a couple of different 3000-4000 point armies with some overlap (and now I've gotten rid of the irredeemable shiny Knights, probably less than that). I didn't quite realise how literal that was.

Selection here was dictated by the figures, and by a certain amount of whimsy. Once I'd added up all the models I wanted in the army (that is to say, all my Mordheim characters and all the regiments that could fit into a "regular" Vampire Counts army) I went back and added magic items. No Carstein Ring (it's not theirs to use), no Boring Scrolls (I am aware many of us consider Warhammer to be unplayable without two to four of these "no magic allowed" devices, to which I can only say boo from the highest hilltop and boo from the deepest glen) and no Crown of Making Your General Stupid.

I've taken a bit of a gamble with Ruthven in that he doesn't have a save against perfectly ordinary weaponry. I think Magic Resistance for himself and his regiment is going to add more to my game plan, particularly since my doom usually comes in the form of repeated Warp Lightning to the face. Margarita is a luxury: a secondary Count who can stand still and invoke Call Winds as needed. Varney is simply an upgrade from his regular incarnation: the same thing with a Ward save and magic levels. I think the rest is fairly self-explanatory.

Four thousand points, on the dot. I'm pretty happy with this.

Laibach Ruthven: Vampire Lord (Von Carstein): magic level 3, Aura of Dark Majesty, Obsidian Amulet, Sword of Striking
Margarita di Mara: Vampire Count (Von Carstein): magic level 2, Call Winds, Ring of the Night, Black Periapt
Sir Francois Varney: Vampire Count (Von Carstein): magic level 2, great weapon, Summon Wolves, Wolf Form, Wristbands of Black Gold

Rosenkratz: Necromancer: magic level 2, Book of Arkhan: 125
Guildenstern: Necromancer: magic level 2, Staff of Damnation: 140
Mumsie: Necromancer: magic level 2, Staff of Sorcery: 150
Walravius: Wight Lord: heavy armour, Battle Standard, Banner of Doom: 139

Lord Ruthven's First of Foot: 25 Skeletons: spears and shields, light armour, full command: 300
Lord Ruthven's Second of Foot: 25 Skeletons; swords and shields, light armour, full command: 275
Templehof Pals Auxiliaries: 20 Zombies: full command: 135
Bat Swarm: 2 bases: 120
5 Dire Wolves: Doom Wolf: 60

Order of the Grand Cross of Sylvania: 8 Black Knights: barding, full command, Screaming Banner: 280
Crimson Order of Drakenhof: 12 Black Knights: barding, full command, Banner of the Barrows: 385
Black Monks of St. Herod: 5 Spirit Hosts: 325

Cora: Banshee: 90
Clarice: Banshee: 90
Whispering Nell: Banshee: 90
Black Coach: 200

[Alarantalara]

This army gives me cognitive dissonance. I think of undead as something that comes in hordes and 4000 points as being twice as big as the games I usually play, yet I routinely face armies that have similar numbers of models (or more!). For example, in this chaos list here, there's 107 models in 2000 points for a supposedly ultra-elite army while this army has just 113 with twice the points.

It's especially flummoxing because I tried planning out some much smaller (1000 points or so) armies because I'd bought all these undead models for the Cursed City game and was thinking about mounting them on square bases so i could use them in Warhammer too. After all, 10 dire wolves, 10 grave guard, 10 skeletons, 10 zombies, 3 fell bats, a wight, some bat swarms and a necromancer certainly feels like the start of an army. I looked at the numbers, thought I'd have to get a ton more skeletons and zombies and pretty much shelved the idea for a later date (that and I didn't have 100 20mm bases). And yet this army is less than triple the size despite being more than quadruple the points. Perhaps it's not so unreasonable after all.

Enough ranting about something that doesn't even matter other than in my own head. It probably makes games stay reasonable for playing speed anyway. Is there any chance of seeing the army?

[Jonathan E]

If it's any consolation, I've been looking at your comment every morning since you posted, trying to parse it. "Model count" is such an alien metric to me (especially since I can spring new Core out of the ground). At the end of the day, Vampires are expensive, Skeletons and Zombies are deliberately overcosted (per Alessio's designer's notes, UKWD 254 I think), and I have opted for the "full kit" approach which a different kind of player will reject out of hand as being good points after bad.

The goals here are aesthetic - say what you like about my army, it has a Look, and those Skeletons are clearly wearing armour - and "get every model I want on a table on a table without the obligation to acquire more and match a painting style from twenty years ago." I shall see what I can do about pictures, although I don't have any suitable terrain in my collection any more (it's all desert all the time at the House of E).

[mattyfenby]

Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Undead! Awesome reference there.

I love the Call Winds being able to go on not-the-General since you have more slots open at this weight class! I love running a Call Winds Vampire against a shooting line army as the Zombies approach ominously through the storm. Absolutely feels like you’re the Night King in GoT if things go right.

I think it is really interesting how many of the armies can run very small or very large model counts depending on how you want to lean with it. I think players who rely more on LOS and who are the ones worried about losing CC to a Fear causing enemy will end up naturally being more aware of relative model counts; it is possible as a vamps player with no shooting and with the ability to summon anyways that you were less organically forced to be cognizant of model count. It could also just be one of those stats that i let be more important in my mind due to my abysmal arts and crafts skills.

It’s always cool to run the list fully kitting all the units out too; not every battle has to be a competitive attempt to set the ‘meta’ (although I certainly enjoy that too!). I would also be interested in checking out the pictures of the roster but there is no pressure or rush or any need for them to be in an award winning terrain diorama.

Thank you very much for posting this and getting the conversation going!

[Kakapo42]

Hmmph. Typical pathetic witless thick-headed men. Forever obsessed with the simple base size of things, the crudest measure of worth. You gather them in a room and the only thing they can think to do is compare sizes, as if mere physical size revealed anything of import. Present a man with a priceless gem in a delicate ring and a mass of plate and they will choose the large pile of dull primitive metal every time, with no thought to true value. It was a mistake of our queen to ever grace them with the blessed gift of eternal life, if such infantile minutae are all they can think to spend it on.

If there were really any sense among them they would have immediately seen the wisdom of the first salvo of discourse. As even a broken clock can be right twice a night just so can even a lesser bloodline have a good idea from time to time, and the decision to cultivate a coven so rich in talent and fine magical items is indeed a sensible one, for such luxuries are what makes existence bearable. What good is a thousand centuries of cold drab sad barren dreary miserdom?

Quite a miser-able experience if you were to ask me Aheahaha!

(Flashes icy venomous glare at Swains, who immediately burst into uproarious laughter at such an exquisitely witty quib)

(Honestly Vampire Count core infantry are very overrated as a purchase if you ask me, using up perfectly good points that are better spent on more magic items or specialist units. The only reason I ever bother taking any at all when thinking up Vampire Counts armies is because:

1) Summoned Zombies have no command group, making them unable to do anything other than stand around in one place shuffling aimlessly.

2) I know my magic dice well enough to understand the absolute immutable fact of reality that I will never manage to cast a single Invocation of Nehek. Certainly not when it would be at all even remotely helpful at any rate.

But I digress. This army list is fine work, and not something one would want to run into in a dark cobblestone alleyway. It will of course require a plan to deal with any innocent virtuous mortal maidens that happen to be the spitting image of the great love of one of the vampires' life, especially Varney's with his wolf-adjacent bloodline powers that can be particularly dangerous to other vampires, but that is par for the course with Von Carsteins and planning for that should be second nature to any veteran general of them.

Likewise the other classic vulnerability of Von Carsteins, deploying the darkly flamboyant sire of the Von Carstein general, though this is in also less effective against a Vampire Lord like the one featured here, who will have had more time to angst out of their humanity and grow more comfortable with the predatory paradoxes of their unlife.)

[Alarantalara]

"Model count" is such an alien metric to me (especially since I can spring new Core out of the ground).

It's not a metric I care about but an attempt to describe the difference between my expectations and what I saw. I normally play 2000 point or smaller games, primarily because games of even that size with my most frequent opponent can take 4-5 hours to resolve and we generally start shortly after lunch and want the table clear for supper (and we need time to make the meal too). So to me, 4000 points is huge, literally twice as big as what I'm used to.

So I look at the list expecting something like the Siege of Minas Tirith with uncountable legions—I mean it's twice the points, it's got to be big, right—and I look down the list of characters and there're lots of them, just as I expected, and then I get to the rest of the army and I don't see a lot of units, so I think, "They must be huge," and then they're mostly normal sized, with only one unit of knights being notably large compared to what I'm used to. So then I think, "This can't be right," and add up the points costs and the number of models, thinking, "Surely I've miscounted. This army shouldn't fit comfortably on the same size table as what I play. It shouldn't look like the army of men at the Black Gate." Yet everything checks out and I'm left confused.

At any rate, it's not a critique of your army, just something that captured my mind that I felt worth sharing. Think of me as one of those horror movie protagonists who walk into an empty building and ask, "Where is everyone?" right before the monsters rise out of the ground and everyone dies.

[Jonathan E]

@ matty

Thank you kindly! You may be on to something with the unit sizes - the only time I've ever really considered these things is with Tomb Kings (always push to the cap, your stats are rubbish, you need the numbers) and Slaanesh Chaos (everything was multiples of six... yes, I was one of those players...)

@ Alarantalara

Right, right, I get you now. If I want to shift the scale into something really mahoosive like that, Warmaster would be my go-to route. Heading up to brigade scale and down to 10mm lets you hit that "Denethor looks down from the Tower of Guard and sees his doom" feel.

With regards the table size, I think the compact nature of the Vampire Counts army probably helps here. "Compact?" you may be thinking - "what ARE they on about?" The thing is, you only have one General and there's a strong incentive to huddle up around them: that plus the overcharge for Core units leads to a smaller horde than one might expect. There's no shooting, so I don't have to worry so much about blocking fire lanes...

That said, I've tried to play 6000 points on a 6' x 4' a couple of times and that was very cramped, with deployment errors adding up as a consequence: there is definitely a sweet spot.

@ the young lady from the Silver Pinnacle who appears to have infiltrated this bulletin board

I shall remind you that Vashanesh, at least, chose the ring. We are not all as crude as your mistress has raised you to believe. But yes: it is the mark of nobility that we surround ourselves with peers first, and minions second. A vampire is made to be master, not servant, and I would have associates worthy of their titles and their burdens before I troubled myself with mere thralls. Either of my coterie I would trust with command in their own right, and they would reward my faith doubly with success.

(I believe I've mentioned my stance on the matter of spells. I start my planning on the assumption that my opponent will not let me cast anything and anything I do cast is a pleasant surprise. I am used to Skaven armies stuffed to the gills with Warlocks, or Dwarfs who steal my precious dice and stuff them into their already overburdened little pouches. All I can do is cast things with the greatest number of dice permitted - four for a Lord, three for anyone else, hence the drive for sixteen overall - and see what happens when the Boring Scrolls run out.)