Beastmen advice

[PalmerC]

Hey all

I have been having good luck with my beastmen but recently have been having trouble against wood elves. In a 2000 point game my opponent is taking two treemen and the forrest dragon with a powerful lord mounted. Finding with three heavy hitters and dryads and cavalry and some archers it was tough to deal with. For the besstmen players out there what would you tend to bring based on what I said here?

[Kakapo42]

It is an exceptionally rare scholar indeed who has had the privilege of studying the secret archives of the Meadows Of Heaven. No more than a dozen living outside the bounds of Athel Loren have been granted even brief access.

Those that have, and who have studied the accounts of the terrible battles fought between Beast and Elf during the great long Secret War, have concluded that more than anything else it is the monsters of Chaos that the Asrai of the Meadows of Heaven fear most. Trolls, Ogres and Minotaurs are all fearsome adversaries capable of holding their own against even the largest opponents.

But there are far older and fouler things than even those in the dark and deep places of the woods. Giants, Dragon Ogres and even the frumious Shaggoths can all be called upon by a Beastlord and will make very short work of any opposing monster. In the accounts of Cyanathair's invasion of Athel Loren the Asrai could do little more than flee before their terrible might, and even the trees were outmatched. When confronted with overwhelming scores of these abominations the Meadows Of Heaven were forced to unleash the most potent magics the world has ever known, the unspeakable power of The Silent Force and The Gathering, in order to stop their assaults.

There is also reference to regiments of Bestigors fighting under a Vitriolic Totem cutting down enormous monsters far greater in size.

Surely then, it must be concluded that the most sensible solution to dealing with many Treemen and forest dragons is with monsters of your own.

[Alarantalara]

While Treemen may be dealt with via our own monsters, the forest dragon requires more consideration. It is simply too fast for our monsters to readily engage and thus may prove frustrating as it easily, if cowardly, avoids our monsters until it thinks it can beat them.

There are alternatives however. All the chaos gods but Tzeentch all offer blessings that help anyone in our army stand up to the terror they represent. With these marks, even bestigors gain the ability to threaten any of these forest spirits, and you will need many threatening units to ensure the rest of your army's safety. For this reason, you may wish to avoid the Shaggoth since its presence prevents bringing along more minotaurs or ogres. The Rapturous Standard also bears mention here, simultaneously protecting your bestigors while letting them hit more often against such skilled opponents.

There is another answer beyond sheer numbers of dangerous units to handle a dragon however. Beasts can and do summon daemons to help them, and some of these daemons can fly. An Unliving Idol can lead your forces and with care can challenge a dragon directly. Even a mere exalted deamon, when led by a Beastlord or Doombull, may be useful here. Just beware the elves' enchanted arrows if you follow this route.

Finally, do not underestimate chariots. They're reasonably fast and resistant to fear and terror. This can let them bolster your lesser units against the dryads by ensuring that something succeeds in charging, and can help out against the dragons and treemen with impact hits and the rider's great weapon. It might be just what you need to end a fight quickly rather than let it drag out and risk having your target receive support. Best of all, they're cheap and you can take as many as you want.

[mattyfenby]

My kneejerk reaction from a sweaty meta competitive standpoint is to figure out a way to get multiple wounds at a time on to those Large Targets. A Dogs of War cannon or two in the Rare slots could achieve this. However, I completely understand that this not only relies on guessing inches and some luck, it might also not be answering the question you are asking. When it comes to things within the Beasts list that could stand against the Large Target/Cause Terror monsters which the Asrai are bringing, Kakapo and Alarantalara are probably heading in the right direction where lore meets meta. Marks that grant Frenzy or Cause Fear work well. Units which themselves Cause Fear dont need to worry as much about Terror, and the units mentioned like chariots and monsters all have some dynamic CC worth worrying about for the enemy. Additionally, magic weapons and magic spell attacks will prove useful against Forest Spirits. The Forest Spirit ward save is only in effect against non magic attacks, so upgrades and points spent on magic could be the right play. Finally, I believe you will find that Treemen are Flammable and susceptible to Flaming Attacks.

Thank you very much for sharing and good luck against those Asrai!

[Just Tony]

Magic, marks, monsters. So far everyone is spot on. The other thing to consider is to bait away the scary stuff and dog pile the rest of the army. When he finally tries to get to the rescue, try to draw him against who you want him to hit.


And I totally support Dogs of War Cannons, and am making at least one with Ungor crew expressly for my Beastmen army.

[PalmerC]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I like the idea of having a demon prince as an option with the idol I hadn’t thought of that. I used four chariots yesterday. I actually find them against terror with their low leadership pretty horrible but also against T5 T6 even if I get them in they are pretty underwhelming with impact hits. Tweaking my bestigors may help a bit too but the rapturous standard mentioned above isn’t in the beastmen book it’s in the hordes of chaos book so I do t believe I can take it.

Anyway nice ideas thanks!

Palmer

[Alarantalara]

Remember that chariots have the mark of chaos undivided, so get to reroll their terror (and all other psychology) tests. They succeed a lot more than they fail.

As for the rapturous standard:

Special Note: Models from the Beasts of Chaos book can also use items from the Hordes of Chaos book within the limitations given there. No Beasts of Chaos characters can ever use enchanted items.

The rapturous standard isn't an enchanted item, and the only limitation is having the Mark of Slaanesh, which you can get.

Speaking of magic items from the Hordes of Chaos book, a fun if unreliable idea is the Hellfire Sword on a Doombull or Beastlord. While you'll only wound on 5s, there's a 50-50 chance of killing a Treeman with one hit if it fails its armor save (no forest spirit save because of the magical attack and it does 2+D6 wounds on a failed save). With only a 27% chance of it happening on the first turn for beastlords after all the attacks and saves are counted, it's really not something to rely on, but is fun anyway (32% with Mark of Khorne or a Doombull).

[PalmerC]

Thanks after your post I looked at the hordes of chaos book for a daemon prince and already decided like you point out a hellfire sword is in the future lol... seems like a great option.

For some reason even with the undivided rerolls my four chariots still performed abismally ....

I didnt realize the beasts of chaos could take non enchanted items from the hordes of chaos book so thank you!

cheers

Palmer

[Kakapo42]

In theory the magic items in both Chaos books are interchangable, and Chaos characters in practice can access both sets of magic items. In practice a lot of the Beasts of Chaos magic items are specifically marked as Beastmen Characters Only, which means that Beastmen characters end up with a wider array of magic item options in exchange for losing out on a magic item slot.

This makes sense since the Beasts are the true children of chaos and far worthier champions of the gods than any soft feeble smoothskin weakling.

As for chariots, they are not well suited to monster hunting. They can do it in a pinch, but they're really better suited to bullying infantry around with their plentiful medium strength impact hits. Their speed can make them helpful in chasing down flying creatures like Dragons and trapping them for another unit to deliver the killing blow, but even then you need to be careful as a Dragon can make very short work of a chariot with its multiple high strength attacks.

For actually hurting monsters you really need a concentration of high strength hits, and the main source of that kind of molten pain in the Beasts of Chaos army are the monstrous units, especially ones carrying great weapons.

[PalmerC]

Thanks again I will incorporate some of the pointers into my next game