Hordes of Chaos / Chaos Dwarfs Hellcannon Question

[mattyfenby]

As I am in the middle of trying to make a Chaos Dwarfs army book, I need to fully understand how the Hellcannon works.

Originally an addition to the Hordes of Chaos army, its stats can be found here thanks to another member of the forum compiling added units on his blog.

https://wfb6thcharacters.blogspot.com/p/hellcannon.html

My question is this: Does the Daemonic Aura and Daemonic Attacks rule apply only to the Hellcannon model? Or do these rules affect the Machine and its 3 crew as well? Thank you to anyone who takes the time to read this and who can shed some light on the answer.

[Just Tony]

I'll look up the rule for you later after I get up to go to work, but as an aside, do you have all three of those links from the "hope I don't get banned" thread? If so, please respond to the new thread here on the site with those three links since I'm having trouble getting them myself.

[Jonathan E]

Logically, since the crew are Chaos Dwarfs and not Daemons, they should not have a Daemonic Aura or Daemonic Attacks.

It baffles me that you need to ask about this. I really do think a lot of these rules questions can be answered by thinking about what words mean and what the game system is supposed to depict, and making your choices based on that, rather than chasing a literalism that has never been part of Games Workshop's design process.

[Just Tony]

Sorry it took me this long but I think J Dawg here has the right of it. You wouldn't expect a character's Ward save to transfer to their unit, nor would the Tomb King's Curse affect models from his unit that are killed. Like tends to affect like, or it is expressly spelled out when something affects more than just the model itself.

[mattyfenby]

Thanks again to both of you for the help.

[mattyfenby]

Jonathan,

I wrote a lengthy defensive response before and edited it a bunch of times before ultimately biting my tongue and just writing 'thanks,' but now I've name-dropped you on another thread so out of fairness I will say it here, too, so it doesn't seem like I'm saying it not to you.

I don't like how you're coming off with the way you're answering these questions. It sounds incredibly insulting to me. If you find my questions to be bad questions, that's a perfectly fine opinion to have in your own mind but there's no reason to talk down to someone who is just trying to learn. Let's just clean it up with the 'come along now's and the 'it baffles me you need to ask this question' 'think about what words mean' etc.

I don't want to start a big war here and I'm not interested in a big insult battle back and forth. I'm not going to attack you personally and to be honest I think you guys are smart when it comes to Warhammer- that's obviously why I come here to ask your opinions on things. I just want to use the site to try and be the best most confident commissioner for my little fledgling club as I can.

[TinyLegions]

Rules wise, I don't see anything to override what Jonathon and JT are saying. The Hellcannon is the one that falls under demonic rules, not Chaos Dwarves. What is in the link is not exactly the easiest to see the flow and logic of the unit as it is a copy of a copy I am sure. I need to see what I need to upload PDF files on here, but the Archaeon's Horde of the SOC book has a better print setting that shows a better flow. In that the "below exceptions is referring to the special rules. You can get a download here:

https://oiipdf.com/fantasy-storm-of-chaos

A more nebulous mention of daemonic mounts talks about how while a daemonic mount is immune to Psychology, the rider is not in the Q&A of the 2004 chronicle. Bottom line, no Chaos Dwarves do not get any demonic benefits as far as I can tell.

Tone wise, yes Jonathan probably could have handled that better, but I do agree that some people, not specifically you, do take rules lawyering and powergaming into a whole new dimension, and you seem to be at the nexus of it at times with those who play this game. I know that you do neutral questions so that your thread does not become like one of Reddit posts asking "Who is the Asshole," but a little more context is always helpful. Don't take it personal guys.

[Jonathan E]

Jonathan,

I wrote a lengthy defensive response before and edited it a bunch of times before ultimately biting my tongue and just writing 'thanks,' but now I've name-dropped you on another thread so out of fairness I will say it here, too, so it doesn't seem like I'm saying it not to you.

I don't like how you're coming off with the way you're answering these questions. It sounds incredibly insulting to me. If you find my questions to be bad questions, that's a perfectly fine opinion to have in your own mind but there's no reason to talk down to someone who is just trying to learn. Let's just clean it up with the 'come along now's and the 'it baffles me you need to ask this question' 'think about what words mean' etc.

I don't want to start a big war here and I'm not interested in a big insult battle back and forth. I'm not going to attack you personally and to be honest I think you guys are smart when it comes to Warhammer- that's obviously why I come here to ask your opinions on things. I just want to use the site to try and be the best most confident commissioner for my little fledgling club as I can.

You're all right, man.

The goal here is not to hurt feelings for the sake of it but to discourage a way of thinking about rules and play that isn't particularly suited to Warhammer. It's not an ultra-tight, ultra-literal, strict-letter-of-the-law kind of game where the rulebook can do all your thinking for you, and I have run out of patience with the misconception that it is. It's the whole Warhammer for Adults thing: we can't offload the responsibility for play onto the rulebook because sooner or later we're going to have to interpret based on reading between the lines and common sense and an idea of what's being represented by these figures and these rules.

This is how I arrive at a state of mind that amounts to - for example - "come on, mate, you really can't figure out that the crew aren't daemons themselves?" I can't really say "I think this is a stupid question and you should probably work on the thought process that led you to ask it" without some insult to your intelligence, but I was being a prat about it this time. It's a fair cop. I'll try to wind it in.