Classichammer

Gentlemen, and others, I have a problem.
My problem is roughly twice the size of a Dreadnought, at a minimum, and frequently escalates to far grander dimensions.
My problem belongs, as I have often opined, in Epic scale: just because you CAN make a 32mm model of something doesn't mean you SHOULD make a 32mm model of something.
My problem is something that lured me into actively playing 40K in the first place, but has thus far eluded my grasp as that bit too expensive and not entirely fun for the same three people to play into as the only 40K they really get to enjoy.
My problem is I bloomin' love Chaos Knights.

I also love the Vehicle Design Rules, and will take any opportunity to monkey around with them. The part of my brain that responds to character creation in RPGs unfurls when I have this sort of thing in front of me - here's a model, here's a system for giving it rules, make some choices and do some sums. So, inspired by the work that Felicity on the third edition Facebook group did on Imperial Knights, I summoned up pictures and stats for the modern Knight kits and went to work.

Esquire Knights - Armigers and War Dogs

The smaller classifications of Knight - the esquires to the Knight Houses, as it were - often fight alongside other forces to whom their Household has pledged allegiance. As such, Armigers may be fielded as Heavy Support choices in Imperial armies, and War Dogs may be fielded as Heavy Support choices in Chaos armies. Up to one may be included per 1,000 points available to spend.

In larger games where a full Detachment of Knights is being fielded, two Armigers or War Dogs count as one War Machine.

Type: Walker
Size: Normal
Characteristics: WS 4 BS 4 S5 I3 A1
Armour Values: 12/12/11
Open-Topped: No
Movement: Agile
Points: 100 plus weapons

Armigers and War Dogs have one hull-mounted weapon:
Heavy flamer at +5 points
Heavy stubber at +10 points
Meltagun at + 10 points
Havoc launcher at +10 points (War Dog only)
Storm bolter at +10 points (Armiger only)

Armigers and War Dogs have two arm-mounted weapons:
Mega autocannon at +90 points (or a pair for +175 points)
Dreadnought close combat weapon adding +1 A at +40 points (a pair will be Ferocious for a total of 4 Attacks at +120 points)
Long barrelled assault cannon at +70 points
Long barrelled multi-melta at +80 points

Example Knights:

Armiger Helverin - two mega autocannons and heavy stubber: 285 points
Armiger Warglaive - long-barrelled multi-melta, Dreadnought close combat weapon and meltagun: 230 points
War Dog Brigand - long-barrelled assault cannon, long-barrelled multi-melta and heavy stubber: 260 points
War Dog Carnivore - two Dreadnought close combat weapons and Havoc launcher: 230 points
War Dog Stalker - long-barrelled assault cannon, Dreadnought close combat weapon and heavy stubber: 220 points

Imperial Questoris Class Knights

Type: Walker
Size: War Machine
Structure Points: 2
Characteristics: WS 4 BS 4 S5 I3 A1
Armour Value: 14/14/12
Open-Topped: No
Movement: Lumbering
Points: 410 plus weapons

A Questoris Class Knight has two Imperial force fields. It has the Wrecker special rule.

It must have one hull-mounted weapon from the following list:
heavy flamer at +10 points
heavy stubber at +10 points
Havoc launcher at +10 points (Renegade only)
meltagun at +15 points
storm bolter at +10 points (Imperial only)

It must have two DIFFERENT arm-mounted weapons from the following list:
long-barrelled mega assault cannon with co-axial heavy flamer at +140 points
gatling battle cannon with co-axial heavy stubber at +135 points
long-barrelled blast multi-melta at +140 points
war machine close combat weapon (+1 Attack) at +80 points

In addition, it may take one of the following carapace-mounted weapon systems:
twin-linked anti-aircraft autocannons (70 points)
Whirlwind gun battery (Barrage of 2 templates) (80 points)
blast missile launcher (80 points)

Example Knights:

Knight Crusader - long-barrelled mega assault cannon with co-axial heavy flamer, long-barrelled blast multi-melta, and Whirlwind gun battery
Knight Errant - war machine close combat weapon, long-barrelled blast multi-melta and blast missile launcher
Knight Paladin - war machine close combat weapon and gatling battle cannon with co-axial heavy stubber

Chaos Questoris Class Knights

There are two kinds of renegade Knight in the galaxy. Iconoclast Knights are functionally identical to Imperial Questoris Knights: their vows and oaths have simply led them to side with the Traitor Legions or the Lost and Damned, and honour has proven more vital a concern than faith. However, Infernal Knights have fallen further into the embrace of the Powers, and as such require some rules of distinction.

Type: Walker
Size: War Machine
Structure Points: 2
Stats: WS 4 BS 4 S5 I3 A1
Armour Value: 14/14/12
Open-Topped: No
Movement: Lumbering
Points: 325 plus weapons

An Infernal Knight is armed with a heavy stubber. It has the Wrecker special rule. Instead of force fields, it has the following upgrades from Codex: Chaos Space Marines - Daemonic Possession, Parasitic Possession, Blasphemous Rune, and Dirge Caster.

Only three configurations of Infernal Knight have been observed at large in the galaxy. Note that, despite being armed with a blastmaster, a Knight Abominant is not dedicated to Slaanesh: this was simply the most appropriate profile for the mysterious and forbidden technologies involved in its primary gun. Indeed, the Infernal Knights do not seem to answer to any of the major Chaos powers - what dark rumours and deranged rantings concerning them place them in the service of some minor deity identified only as "the Arkifane."

A Knight Abominant is armed with a war machine close combat weapon, a long-barrelled mega blast blastmaster and the Living Vehicle upgrade, and costs 555 points.
A Knight Desecrator is armed with a war machine close combat weapon and a mega titan killer lascannon, and costs 520 points.
A Knight Rampager is armed with two war machine close combat weapons and is Ferocious (for a total of 4 Attacks), and costs 485 points.

Cerastus Class Knights

Cerastus Class Knights are found in the Freeblade and Dreadblade hosts alike, serving either the Emperor or the Powers of Chaos. There is functionally no difference between a Castigator answering the call from an Imperial Guard brigade, or a host of the Lost and Damned following in the wake of a roaming Subjugator.

Type: Walker
Size: War Machine
Structure Points: 3
Characteristics: WS 4 BS 4 S5 I3 A1
Armour Value: 14/14/12
Open Topped: No
Movement: Agile
Points: 405 plus weapons

A Cerastus Class Knight has one Imperial force field. It has the Wrecker special rule.

A Knight Acheron is armed with a twin-linked heavy bolter and war machine close combat weapon on one arm and a twin linked mega inferno cannon on the other, and costs 505 points.
A Knight Castigator, or Subjugator, is armed with a twin-linked mega assault cannon on one arm and a war machine close combat weapon on the other, and costs 490 points.
A Knight Lancer is armed with a Ferocious war machine close combat weapon (granting +2 A for a total of 3) and an additional Imperial force field, and costs 480 points.

Dominus Class Knights

Are you mad?

The Dominus class is the largest Knight, and the largest vehicle in the Imperial or Traitor armoury that can be managed by a single pilot. Among the loyal Households, a prized Castellan or Valiant chassis is likely to be the greatest heirloom of a noble line; among the Traitors, a Tyrant is worth the labour of millennia it takes to maintain in exile.

Type: Walker
Size: War Machine
Structure Points: 3
Characteristics: WS 4 BS 4 S5 I3 A1
AV: 14/14/12
Open Topped: No
Movement: Lumbering
Points: 510 plus weapons

A Dominus class Knight has 3 Imperial force fields. It is armed with two twin-linked meltaguns. It has the Wrecker special rule.

A Dominus class Knight must choose one of the following hull weapon loadouts:
4 hunter-killer missiles and a short-barrelled slower rate twin-linked autocannon at +95 points
2 short-barrelled slower rate twin-linked autocannons and 2 hunter-killer missiles at +100 points

A Dominus class Knight must also choose two DIFFERENT arm weapons:
Ferocious war machine close combat weapon (+2 Attacks for a total of 3) at +120 points
gatling mega inferno cannon at +120 points
long barrelled titan-killer mega lascannon at +160 points
long barrelled mega blast plasma cannon at +180 points

The Castellan class has the two long-barrelled weapons; the Valiant class has the close combat and flame weapons.

And Finally... Designer's Notes

I don't know why either. I only know that once I'd started, I had to finish. Yes, I am on the spectrum: how did you know?

Anyway, I'm quite pleased with the range and scale of absurdities on show here. The Armiger or War Dog chassis is essentially a heavier Dreadnought, and as such I've upscaled the weapons with just the one upgrade apiece. I find the Brigand especially satisfying, since its assault cannon still counts as a defensive weapon under fourth edition rules: that's just the sort of thing that tickles my brain.

Questoris Class gave me the real headaches: wading through the bevy of proper nouns and variants to find the common options and getting my maths wrong at least twice. (If it's still wrong... tell me, but don't tell me until next week. I don't think I could face it.) This is where you start seeing the double upgrades, as Knight guns are so comparatively massive that I think they should all be "mega" weapons by default. I did have a much more restrictive approach to these originally, with six named patterns for the Imperium, but decided to say "sod that for a lark" and just indicate a few archetypes.

The Infernal Knights are the reason I wanted to do this. I have a giant soft spot for the Knight Abominant, which I so desperately want to be good. (It's cool, but it's not good, or cheap, and a kit has to be at least two of those things before I'll consider forking out for it.) I didn't give it psychic powers (too much faff) but it does have Living Vehicle to represent sweeps with its tail and it does have the weirdest gun of the bunch. The Rampager is my silly Knight: nobody should field this damn thing unless there are War Machines on the other side of the table, and to be honest I don't think most of these have a place in battles without War Machines on the other side of the table. That's what they're FOR.

Differentiating the Cerastus class was a challenge but in the end I decided to make them a bit nippier, trading off resilience (force fields) and flexibility (locked weapon sets and nothing big on the hull).

By the time you're applying multiple modifiers to get into the real almost-Titan-class weapons, the parade of adjectives makes you feel more and more like an excited juvenile who hasn't had their ADHD meds today. I mean, I'm thirty-eight and I'm saying "long-barrelled mega blast plasma cannon" with my actual mouth. The Knight Dominus is a very silly kit though. I did that one for completeness' sake, and I think it occupies the upper limits of what's possible with the VDR and 40K as a rule set. I do like that all these absurd weapons have their drawbacks though - plasma cannons overheat, assault cannons jam, inferno cannons are short ranged, and even the long-barrelled titan killer mega lascannon ("it's got Strength 10 and AP 1 and takes d3 Structure Points off of you!") only gets the one shot.

The daemons in my brain aren't shutting up, though. They want to do the Stompa, and the Gorkanaut and Morkanaut. And the Wraithknight. And the Riptide. I think I'm starting to understand why the GW developers get like this. There is something addictive about slamming these big numbers and chains of adjectives together, and for all my kvetching about how these things have no place in 40K, I think I would actually enjoy pitting a couple of War Machine detachments and a thousand-odd points of hangers-on against each other, once in a while.

Wait, there's a 3rd Ed. 40K Facebook group?!?!?!??!?!?




I like what you've done here, and the only thing I can add is that you need to get them on the table to find proof of concept. Definitely keep us posted on that.

I must say I am bemusedly impressed with the discipline to stick to only the options that are included in the model kit - in the glorious land of "We don't ever plan to actually make a model for this thing, but here are some rules for it if you want to build one yourself" it is all too easy to throw in a few extra assault weapon options for things like defensive guns because "after all why not, why shouldn't I keep the option to swap out a meltagun for a grenade launcher or a stormbolter".

(If it's still wrong... tell me, but don't tell me until next week. I don't think I could face it.)

I'm not going to tell you the math is wrong (not least because as a red-livered passionate english-drama nerd I don't much care for math to begin with), but I will tell you that it's OK if the math is a little wrong. There's a bunch of areas in my own VDR creations (featured in Issue #745(NZ) of Night Parrot Magazine, or the Kakapo Approved section of this website) where I deliberately bent the math a little because the VDR math gets WEIRD in some places, especially when it comes to really big guns - the most notable example off the top of my head was the titan-killing long-barreled mega blast heavy railgun, which ended up working out to quite a lot cheaper than a battery of ER ion cannons. My experience thus far has been that the VDR numbers are best seen as more what you'd call guidelines than actual rules to be followed to the letter.

The daemons in my brain aren't shutting up, though. They want to do the Stompa, and the Gorkanaut and Morkanaut. And the Wraithknight. And the Riptide. I think I'm starting to understand why the GW developers get like this. There is something addictive about slamming these big numbers and chains of adjectives together, and for all my kvetching about how these things have no place in 40K, I think I would actually enjoy pitting a couple of War Machine detachments and a thousand-odd points of hangers-on against each other, once in a while.

Isn't it just. There's a reason I made the task of translating the entire lineup of Epic Tau vehicles into 40k scale a top priority of Kakapo Approved (well, multiple reasons really but that was certainly one). It helps that the Tau in Epic have this fascinating range of pocket superheavies that pushed the envelope of what is possible with the Hammerhead chassis without quite crossing over into full war machine territory, and thus were all just begging to be thrown into 40k scale. The brain daemons are also eager to translate all the special Epic Chimera variants over to 40k too for similar reasons.

Conveniently there is also a handy expanded Tau VDR module set up that might assist your obsession.

Kakapo42 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2024 9:43 am I must say I am bemusedly impressed with the discipline to stick to only the options that are included in the model kit...

That's what I might call a legacy issue. When I started doing these I was resolutely committed to a strict "this is a pattern of Knight that exists in the rules, here is a points value for it" approach. A second pass would absolutely add storm bolters and heavy flamers to the suite and more weapons for the big 'uns. If you can bolt it on top of a tank turret, it should be boltable onto an Armiger hull as well.

Kakapo42 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2024 9:43 am I'm not going to tell you the math is wrong (not least because as a red-livered passionate english-drama nerd I don't much care for math to begin with), but I will tell you that it's OK if the math is a little wrong.

A "little" would be fine. Eighty-odd points of drift between the Thursday night and Friday morning calculations is perhaps a "little" too much. I've done a lot of fudging on the guns, though, generally on the side of rounding up. It wouldn't surprise me, though, to learn that some of these are better or worse for the cost than others - they usually are, break points in Strength and AP versus common target types and so on. The gatling battle cannon feels like a bit much, but it's a five or six hundred point model, it probably should be able to pick up a whole Tactical Squad if it wants to.

Kakapo42 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2024 9:43 am The brain daemons are also eager to translate all the special Epic Chimera variants over to 40k too for similar reasons.

Expanded army list entry for the Chimera itself or would you go for the Leman Russ approach where they're all discrete listed "models"? That's what I ran into with the Knights and ended up kind of hedging my bets.

... I have other things to do today, I do NOT need to be hacking Gorkanauts and Morkanauts...

Just Tony wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2024 9:02 am Wait, there's a 3rd Ed. 40K Facebook group?!?!?!??!?!?

I like what you've done here, and the only thing I can add is that you need to get them on the table to find proof of concept. Definitely keep us posted on that.

There's a third edition group and a fourth edition group.

The Knights remain a theory exercise at the moment as, despite loving them, I don't actually own any. It's to do with the limited pool of opponents and not wanting to throw the same all-vehicles-all-the-time skew in their faces, and me only being able to maintain one army at a time as a matter of fiscal policy. Even the Chaos Space Marines have moved on to fund the acquisition of additional Necrons.

Jonathan E wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2024 2:52 am The gatling battle cannon feels like a bit much, but it's a five or six hundred point model, it probably should be able to pick up a whole Tactical Squad if it wants to.

It is, but there's also not an awful lot else you can do with a battle cannon - it's already an ordnance gun, so the blast option is out, and long-barreling it can get superfluous on something that already has railgun range. If it were me I might have gone with the Mega option instead, just based on what the model looks like, but just making everything a mega gun probably gets a little dull after a while.

Jonathan E wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2024 2:52 amExpanded army list entry for the Chimera itself or would you go for the Leman Russ approach where they're all discrete listed "models"? That's what I ran into with the Knights and ended up kind of hedging my bets.

The Leman Russ approach, discrete Chimera class models. It helps that there's only three of them and all have a distinct niche that makes it very easy and straightforward to spin them out into three distinct support vehicles that swap the passenger compartment for something special.

Although saying this now I should probably translate over the Siegemaster Imperial Guard vehicles too while I'm at it...

I don't know why I didn't just use an Earthshaker. Why didn't I just use an Earthshaker?

Anyway. Unable to stop doing the thing, I did more...

Gorkanaut and/or Morkanaut

Type: Walker
Size: War Machine
Open Topped: No
Structure Points: 2
Characteristics: WS4 BS2 S5 I2 A2
Armour Value: 14/14/12
Speed: Normal

Points: 380 plus weapons

A Gorkanaut or, indeed, Morkanaut has a transport capacity of 12 Orks (Orks in mega-armour count as 2 Orks). There is one access point (on the front) that counts as an assault ramp.

A Morkanaut (unless it's a Gorkanaut) always has a war machine close combat weapon and one Orky force field. It may have a second Orky force field at +15 points, but may not mount a top weapon if this option is chosen.

It must have a shoulder mounted weapon:
long-barrelled titan-killer zzap gun at +70 points
6 gatling shootas at +45 points

It must have a chest mounted weapon:
big shoota at +15 points
rokkit launcha at +15 points
skorcha at +15 points
kustom mega-blasta at +20 points

It may mount two other weapons (one on top and one on the wrist, which is destroyed if the close combat weapon is destroyed):
two twin-linked big shootas at +45 points
gatling rokkit launcha at +35 points
twin-linked skorcha at +25 points
twin-linked kustom mega blasta at +30 points

And then...

"'Ere, Bodgit."
"Worrizit, Skarpa?"
"Is a Stompa like... a lil' Gargant? Or a rilly big Dred?"
"It's a zoggin' Stompa is wot it is! Honestly. Now stop askin' meta-fizzy-kill queschuns an' pass me dat wrench."
"Awright, awright - OW!"
"Dat's wot you get for askin' meta-fizzy-kill queschuns."

STOMPA!

Type: Walker
Size: War Machine
Open Topped: No
Structure Points: 3
Characteristics: WS4 BS2 S5 I2 A3
Armour Value: 14/14/12
Speed: Lumbering
Points: 750 plus weapons

A Stompa has a transport capacity of 20 Orks (Orks in mega-armour count as 2 Orks) or 1 Deff Dred. Yes, really.
A Stompa has 3 Orky force fields.
A Stompa has the Wrecker special rule.

A Stompa always has a war machine close combat weapon, which counts as Ferocious.
A Stompa always has a long-barrelled titan-killer mega blast kannon with a co-axial long-barrelled titan-killer gatling mega big shoota.

A Stompa has a turret, which mounts one of the following weapons:
twin-linked big shoota at +25 points
twin-linked rokkit launcha at +25 points
twin-linked skorcha at +20 points
twin-linked kustom mega blasta at +30 points

A Stompa may have up to three hull weapons:
big shoota at +15 points
rokkit launcha at +15 points
skorcha at +15 points
kustom mega-blasta at +20 points

A Stompa may have up to 4 hunter-killer rokkits at +10 points each.


These were significantly easier to do - James of the house of Workshop didn't see fit to grace the Orks with quite so many options. I'm especially pleased with the co-axial guns on the Stompa - I've managed to make a set which it's worth firing at either infantry (with the kannon loading frag shells) or another war machine (the gatling shoota goes first to try and strip shields, and then the kannon fires a krak round to do some real damage).

The absurdity of "six gatling shootas" on the Gorkanaut is symptomatic of the new-school approach to models and thus rules: MORE guns hence MORE dice with MORE rerolls and hang the sense of it all. This thing rolls 6d3 to see how many shots it even gets, and can potentially put out the same kind of firepower as a Shoota Boyz mob, which is to say "nothing you should really write home about."

These were significantly easier to do - James of the house of Workshop didn't see fit to grace the Orks with quite so many options. I'm especially pleased with the co-axial guns on the Stompa - I've managed to make a set which it's worth firing at either infantry (with the kannon loading frag shells) or another war machine (the gatling shoota goes first to try and strip shields, and then the kannon fires a krak round to do some real damage).

James of Workshop did that thing he sometimes does where he didn't include every last option in the base plastic kit. The Orks have options for their Stompas, but the belly gunz and Klawstompas and Evil Eyes in Da Sky are all parceled out as Forgeworld Extras or kitbash projects. The unified plastic kit is comparatively more tame.

The co-axial guns are a very nice job though.

Curious to see what happens if one was to start bunching up the pile of gattling shootas into three sets of twin-linked versions, as is the typical oldhammer protocol for gun multiples greater than two (cf. Hydra, Thunderbolt, Marauder Destroyer). I'm assuming it would still be a similar cursed pile of dice rolls to get to a Shoota Boyz mob level of dakka, but maybe a little more consistently mediocre? Probably not so dramatically different enough that it needs changing though.

Best of luck getting through the rest of the Newhammer stompies!

Another weekend, another enormous pile of plastic and adjectives. This time it's Eldar! (And even less considered than usual: I haven't had a tame Eldar player in decades...)

WRAITHKNIGHT

Type: Gargantuan Creature!
Mass Points: 3
Profile: WS 6, BS 4, S10, T8, W3, I4, A1, Ld10, Sv 3+
Speed: Lumbering
Cost: 450 plus weapons

Weapon options:
- wraithglaive (war machine close combat weapon granting +1 A) at +120 points
- scattershield (Eldar force field, effectively all directions) at +100 points
- long-barrelled blast wraithcannon at +90 points
- long-barrelled mega starcannon at +135 points

Up to two from the following list:
- bright lance at +30 points
- scatter laser at +35 points
- shuriken cannon at +25 points
- starcannon at +35 points
- Eldar missile launcher at +40 points

I designed the Wraithknight with the traditional process of jiggery-pokery reserved for Elf Nonsense (In Space). Like its smaller cousin, the Wraithlord, it's not a vehicle: it's a bloody great monster that's a deal harder to destroy than a Knight of equivalent size. I started out by building the statline using the Tyranid monstrous creature rules, then when it came time to assign weapons switched back to the regular VDR. It doesn't get the privilege of a titan-killer weapon, though; if the Wraithknight wants to take on another war machine it's going to have to close the distance and hit them with its sword. It's also Lumbering, which is less about agility and more about the detachment from reality the Ghost Warriors experience. A Wraith this big is difficult for a Spiritseer to manage, and is always going to be comparatively plodding. (The alternative was making them Agile, and only alllowing them to fire one gun regardless of how far they moved, which might work better. I need a tame Eldar player to field test this.)

Additional, Chapter Disapproved rule: Wraithguard may exchange their wraithcannons for either a wraithsword (counts as a power fist) or a wraithaxe and rune shield (counts as a power weapon, and gives the Wraithguard a 4+ Invulnerable save). Done entirely because I like the spiffy new plastic Wraithguard with their close combat weapon options, and because I'd play the hell out of an Iyanden army if I ever found myself possessed by the urge to paint space pixies. That or Ulthwe Strike Force.

By the way, I've also made an edit to the Cerastus class Knight: they're bigger than the Questoris, but I didn't realise how much bigger until I saw them side by side in an army shot. Those... those have three Structure Points.

What? No titan-killer gun? This unit is completely unplayable and clear proof that the game designers hate Eldar who have never been able to catch a break since the Good Old Days woe is us no other game faction is burdened by inferior weapons like this.

But seriously I am impressed and surprised that you committed to the wraith stompers = monstrous creature bit, knowing how strongly you feel on the issue. The temptation to just make it a purebred VDR War Machine must have been very strong. The upside is that it does mean there is a solid niche for it and it's not just a watered down Revenant.

While I can't say I share the same love for plastic Wraithguard and their close combat weapons (also no Chapter Disapproved D-scythe profile?), I do share the same affinity for Iyanden which is the frontrunner for Craftworld I would play if I ever got around to an Eldar army - the Yellow and Blue colour scheme is brilliant (that particular golden yellow shade makes my brain Brrrr hard, a colour scheme that pairs it with bright red and white accents and light grey machinery - based on the Taiidan colours in Homeworld - is high in the shortlist of alternate ways I'd paint my Tau if I were to do it all over again), and for obvious reasons I can't help but relate to a Craftworld betrayed by cruel fate and forced to cling to the weaponised relics of a long-past age of glory.